Bourbon BBQ: Wyckoff, NJ

This sign might as well say:  "BBQ.  No nonsense, no B.S.  Come eat".   When you see a sign like this pop up in your area, you've gotta be happy.

Happy is what I've been for about 6 months waiting for Bourbon BBQ to open in the old Clixes (RIP) space on Goffle Road in Wyckoff.  The addition of a BBQ restaurant to the area is good news enough, but when you know it's Chef Gary Needham manning the smoker, well, people, it's your lucky day. 

I've been touting Chef Gary's BBQ since my first bite at his other restaurant, Ridgewood's Silver Oak Bistro.  I'm relatively confident that Chef Gary knew he made great BBQ well before I came along and announced it, but I can't help but think that I had at least just a little to do with the emergence of this latest venture.  If you'll allow me to indulge:  toot, toot.  You're welcome.

Bourbon BBQ had a grand opening party on Saturday June 30th (2007, for the benefit of those of you from the future), which I didn't make.  However, me and about 400 other people made their way over on its first official day of operation.

Before I get going, let me just say this.  People, listen up:  If you're going to go to a restaurant on its first day, week, or even month of business, don't expect things to be running smoothly.  Don't be shocked when you get cole slaw instead of mac and cheese.  Don't go when there's a line 20 deep and expect to grab a quick bite and be out in 10 minutes.  And for Pete's sake don't get mad at your servers.  How would you like it if I came to your job on your first day and busted your balls and treated you like an idiot?  I'm confident you wouldn't like that (I'm really good at it).  In fact, it's probably good practice to not treat people as if they were idiots even if it's not the first day of their new job...even if they happen to be idiots (not the case at Bourbon).

Bourbon was indeed in the weeds for the entirety of my meal.  Orders were brought out incorrectly, and some people waited for their food for quite a long time.   But, if you were patient enough to deal with the chaos of the opening weekend of what will be a very popular restaurant, you were treated to some very good St. Louis style BBQ.

The "ribs and tips" consist of spare ribs, and the brisket bit, which is separated from the ribs to make the "tips".  The smoke flavor was evident, but not overpowering.  Much to my surprise, the ribs didn't seem to have much rub on them.  The rub, if any, certainly wasn't sweet, that's for sure.  These are definitely not sweet ribs, but rather the pork and smoke flavor are the stars.  The ribs are also somewhat charred, so I'm thinking they finish the slabs on a grill.  That's a nice touch.  Juicy, and just tender enough (they weren't falling off the bone as if they were boiled).

The pulled pork was served simply on your choice of bread (white, rye or wheat) with onions and pickles and no sauce.  I've never associated onions with BBQ, but onions are a welcomed addition to any sandwich.  Each table has Chef Gary's sauce on it (both mild and hot), so you'll have to opportunity to dress the pork to your liking.  The pulled pork is chopped, not shredded, and was porky, chunky and moist.  However, I did enjoy it more with some hot sauce and BBQ sauce.

We tried a couple of sides, including a delicious cole slaw, good baked beans (although there wasn't much evidence of smoky pork leftovers in them), and mac and cheese, which didn't come close to what Chef Gary is doing with mac and cheese at Silver Oak Bistro.  In fact I'd skip it next time.

At Bourbon, you wait in line to order and pick up your food which is wrapped in butcher paper and on a tray.  I love the casual approach, the comfortable road-housey decor, and the plentiful parking.  I have a feeling this place is going to be rocking and rolling.  If you're curious and dying to try it, do them a favor and go over on off hours, or just hold off until they get their sea legs. 

Bourbon BBQ : 529 Goffle Rd : Wyckoff, NJ : 201.444.6661 : BYOB

Comments

[limabean]

we were one of the craz people on Sunday too and while the pork was moist, i really thought it was bland, so was the brisket. no smokey flavor AT ALL? the mac and cheese was basic if that, the bean below standards, again no smokey flavor. i also thought the two bbq sauces were missing something, the sweet one tasked like there was tamarind in it, and the hot one was boring but some of the gun powder helped a littel......disappointing was our opinion, and I've been in kansas and the carolinas...

[lovelicee]

bourbon bbq is absolutely a place NOT to go to. overpriced for horrible food. I went there on the 4th and the place was completely empty...which should have told me something...My family ordered the "family feast" selection...the beans were notches below Busch's canned beans, the ribs had no rub, the mac and cheese was below kraft's, the greens were hideous, and the pulled chicken was basically a whole baked chicken ripped apart and put on a plate...and please,the BBQ sauce tasted like Bullseye sauce bold and spicy...the place was terrible and i definitely will never go back!

[tommy:eats]

i see we agree on the mac and cheese (although i thought it was better than Kraft), but disagree on the BBQ sauces. they are certainly not the high fructose corn syrup laden "Bullseye" sauces that you compare them to. much different indeed.

we also disagree on how to approach a restaurant during its opening week.

not to mention the fact that an empty restaurant on a huge national holiday on which most people are home or at friends' with their families being any indication as to the potential of the restaurant whatsoever is, to my mind, completely absurd. the place was packed the 3 days prior to the holiday, so even if one judges a restaurant on the lines (how about Olive Garden and its lines?), July 4th is certainly no barometer.

to each his own. clearly our tastes are not the same, so i don't suspect you'll be reading my blog in the future. unless, of course, you're simply googling restaurants' names in order to post negative comments. there are plenty of places for that stuff, thankfully, including Yelp, egullet, and chowhound.

[foodie]

Tommy, I will have to respectfully disagree with you. The bbq at both locations is over priced and absolutely nothing special. I can even go as far as saying some of the dishes should never be served in good conscience. I don’t think they understand real bbq. However, not using corn syrup and other deleterious substances is definitely a plus, but should be the starting point.

I’ve followed your website for a bit and really appreciate what you are trying to do for dining in this area, but I have to call it like I see it.

I’ve always wanted to open a bbq restaurant, but have never had the money, so it hurts me see it done like this.

[tommy:eats]

foodie, with which of my assertions are you disagreeing?

i never said it wasn't expensive (and it's not much more than Fink's up in Blauvelt, and you can bet they've got an easier time with profit margins given the location and the sale of alcohol). i never said it was the best bbq i've ever had (although i do think the ribs and pulled pork at SOB are, or at least were when i had them, very good).

if you didn't like it that's fine (although, one would normally give a restaurant more than 5 days to get their shit together if they want to be fair to the restaurant, and to themselves, even a little bit). conversely, if you google the restaurant's name and post random negative comments on blogs that you likely never read, well i'll calls it likes i sees it too. and to be clear, i don't know if that's what lovelicee did here, but that's sure the way i read it, and i'm pretty good at this stuff.

as an aside, and perhaps in the way of explanation of my lack of tolerance for negative anonymous comments: this blog, my blog, is all about finding the good stuff, and some good stuff at not good restaurants, and sharing it. for the greater good. i keep the negativity (my own) off of it for the most part. believe me, i eat at a lot more restaurants than i blog about, but like they say, if you don't have anything nice to say...

thanks for reading. i appreciate it and i hope you continue to!

and, if you're simply responding to the original post, rather than joining the ensuing discussion, please disregard this entire comment. :D But i am curious that you don't think chef gary is capable of producing great BBQ. perhaps we should combine our efforts and open a BBQ place.

[lovelicee]

whoa whoa whoa, i'm not trying to attack you and i think the whole part of blogs is to find that there are other comments to be seen and heard. I simply didn't like the place. As for that I randomly came to your website, that's not true at all...And there's no direct attack on you...so please refrain from attacking others who just have different opinions. As we all know, restaurant enjoyment is subjective...and I didn't write earlier that they charged me for a drink and side order that I never ordered...so I understand they are starting up...please take into consideration that there are more opinions and tastebuds out there AND I respect your blog so please respect my own comments

[tommy:eats]

lovelicee, please accept my apologies. i will say, however, that there are certain red flags that i look out for to filter out the SPAM from the thoughtful posts. i respect everyones' opinions when they're thoughtful.

i did not feel attacked, you are assured. simply put, my sensibilities were offended. that's about the extent of it. foodie, however, really pissed me off. ;)

i stand by my statements concerning rushing off to a restaurant on the first week of operation and then rushing to judgment and then posting negative comments. this isn't about a difference in taste. it's about being fair.

let's eat!

[foodie]

I was not joining the discussion. I am also not rushing to judgement. I was referring to the bbq at both of the locations which I find to be of equal quality. I should also mention that the other places in the area are worse.

…I am actually astounded that he can’t.

…I think we should

[melissa]

Wow ... I know that barbecue incites passions, but geez ... I'm just going to have to check out Bourbon BBQ and weigh in.

[tommy:eats]

melissa, it was never about BBQ, but i hope you do try it. but not during the first week.

foodie, i didn't suggest you were rushing to judgment. clearly you've had Gary's BBQ before.

[tkron]

We were away when they opened on July 1 so immediately went when we ret'd July 6. We are big fans of Chef Gary & SOB so had very high expectations for a "real" BBQ spot. It was mobbed when we got there about 8pm & nobody at the tables had any food so I thought this was not a good sign, but we decided to wait it out (being exhausted & starving after our 7 hr ride from Maine). We finally got up to the order taker, who informed us they were out of chicken, mac & cheese, beans, & collards. We ordered the "garbage plate" (I could probably think of a more appetizing name...) which consisted of 4 ribs, pulled pork, brisket, & 2 sausages. We got the only sides still available -- corn & cole slaw. After 30 minutes, our order was ready. We thought the ribs & the slaw were terrific - the rest of the items were passable. We will go back for the ribs but probably not for another month to give them some time to work out the kinks.

[Double0]

Tried to go Sat. night, 8:15, got inside the door and was told; sorry we have nothing left. I guess they haven't figured out how to prepare enough food. I'm waiting a few weeks before I go back to let them get their act together.

[Dani]

Okay, so it took me a while to find this...great site!!

[Procongrp]

This restaurant does not have a spot for handicap parking. Hope they add 1 or 2.

[Darren]

We live within walking distance to Bourbon BBQ and since we are familiar with Chef Gary’s other restaurant, Ridgewood’s Silver Oak Bistro, we were very excited about the new place. (I have tried the ribs at the Silver Oak Bistro, and they were very good. Nice and smoky, with great texture. I’m not sure if the ribs are the same at Bourbon BBQ.)

Our first experience with Bourbon BBQ was on Sunday, July 8, at about 3:00 PM. We ordered to take-out.

It wasn’t a good experience. Not only did they get our order wrong; one of the more expensive items wasn’t in the bag when we got home, requiring us to go back to the restaurant, but then we had to wait THIRTY MINUTES for it… and NO apology for the missing item, OR the long wait, btw. By the time we got home the second time, the major part of our order was cold. (However, I DID try the Texas Smoked Sausage and the Mac & Cheese while it was still hot).

We tried the following menu items:

1 lb Texas Smoked Sausage* ($8.99) - This was smoked?? This was absolutely nothing special; very similar in texture and flavor to mass-produced Kielbasa that I buy at the supermarket (such as Hillshire Farms). Not worth the price and I wouldn’t recommend it.

10 BBQ Chicken Wings* ($7.99) – Gristly. Flavor was just “OK”. Texture was not. I can make far better at home. Wouldn’t order it again. They can improve this by starting with higher quality chicken.

2 Delta Corn – ($1.99 ea) Each was about ½ ear of corn with a basic spice rub on it. Nothing special. Definitely not worth the price.

Delta Pickles ($1.99 ea) Mushy, reddish-colored “spicy” pickles (odd-colored because they were soaked in a red “hot” sauce). No crunch. Texture was like “old”, “cooked” pickles. Not particularly spicy. VERY odd. They tasted about as good as they looked. My wife brought them to work and the three co-workers that tried them said they were “gross”. We agree.

1 bottle Bourbon BBQ Sauce ($5.99) – They didn’t have the bottles of their own BBQ sauce, so they poured it in a covered Styrofoam cup instead. Since it wasn’t the full 22oz bottle, they charged about $4.00. We tried the “spicy hot” version of the sauce. It was “OK”. It wasn't spicy enough and could pass as "regular" BBQ sauce.

1 Pint Macaroni & Cheese ($3.99) – A basic Mac & Cheese recipe, nothing special added. But very dry and not creamy. Overcooked pasta stuck together in blobs.

* Both the Texas Smoked Sausage and the BBQ Chicken Wings were supposed to come with 4oz of BBQ sauce each. They also forgot to include the two containers of BBQ sauce in our order.

In all fairness, I did contact the chef about the service problems via email, and he did respond promptly and in kind. He offered some free Moon Pies for the inconvenience, which was nice, but due to the quality of the food and the high prices for it, we won’t likely go back (even for the free Moon Pies).

In closing, since I live within walking distance to Bourbon BBQ, I’ve heard (and continue to hear) a lot of talk about the new restaurant from the locals in the area… the new restaurant is currently “the talk of the town”. The word that continually comes up to describe Bourbon BBQ is “terrible”. I realize that sounds very harsh, but it isn’t going over well. I’ve yet to hear anyone say they “like” the new restaurant, and I’ve yet to hear anyone say they would return.

Unlike my experience, I haven’t personally heard of any restaurant “service issues” from the people in this area, the comments are primarily about the quality of the food along with the high prices. Some are also surprised with how the food is served (no plates, served wrapped in brown paper). Quality of the bread served with some dishes was another thing I’ve heard. I was told it was similar to “Wonder bread”. Whether this type of bread is what’s generally served with “authentic BBQ” doesn’t seem to matter since people in this area are used to higher quality products for these prices.

I pass Bourbon BBQ on a daily basis and their parking lot is always busy. I think that after the novelty wears off though, they might be in serious trouble unless they make major changes that significantly increase the quality of their food (specifically, flavor and texture), expand their menu, and improve their service. Over the years, I’ve seen plenty of restaurants in this area come and go, and unfortunately, unless major changes are made, I am confident that Bourbon BBQ will be one of them.

[tommy:eats]

who gives a shit that they don't have paper plates? in visiting the south, i've found that BBQ places oftentimes serve food in butcher paper. and as the Bourbon BBQ Declaration of BBQ states:
"No plates, we serve on butcher paper – it’s biodegradable"

it should also state: "if you don't like our style, go screw."

there are as many styles of BBQ as there are smokers. until people realize that, they'll continue to complain. it's the all-too-typical case of people criticizing that which they don't understand.

"higher quality chicken"?? there's such a thing as low quality chicken? i don't think so. and if there is, Goffle Poultry, which is where Bourbon gets their chicken, is certainly not selling it. i'm just not buying that line of reasoning.

[Darren]

Yeah, I understand.. I think the paper plates thing is MINOR. So is the bread. Nothing major, just "unusual", which could be GREAT! (but it's NOT)

And YEAH, there ARE better quality chickens. Tommy, I was wondering if they got their chicken at Goffle Poultry like you said (just right down the street, which would be GREAT for them!) If they *truly* did, then they are NOT cooking it well. Goffle Poultry sells Excellent chicken!! About the best you can get.

What I think, and what I’m hearing, it’s mainly about the quality and the price.

Honestly though, even if they were ½ price, right now, I don’t think Bourbon BBQ will last. I’m being honest!

It's a complicated subject because SO many things aren't right. Maybe it's an "area" thing?

[pete_ganz]

I think the real question is if the food is coming out as the chef intends. I've only tried the ribs so far, and they are definitely different than the ribs at Silver Oak, but still very good. The quality of the meat was top notch. If this is what he intends, then people just have to accept it for what it is. If not, everyone needs to be patient until the kinks are worked out.

[tommy:eats]

pete, i don't doubt they're still tweaking their product (and certainly their process), just as most new restaurants.

i'm not getting this "quality of meat" issue. BBQ, historically, is food that poor people eat, made from "lesser" cuts of fatty, tough meat, cooked for hours to bring out the flavor and tenderize. i'm not sure that i've seen different grades of pork butt (actually i have - there are all sorts of small farms raising pigs organically and with different feed than factory-farmed animals, but that's not what BBQ is about, and I sure wouldn't use that stuff for BBQ and don't expect a restaurant to, either), for example. and i sure bet that if there different grades of chicken, that the great mexican and peruvian and thai and vietnamese and chinese places all over the place aren't buying the "top notch" stuff. this whole notion strikes as off-base, and it's sure not what BBQ is all about.

that said i haven't had the chicken wings at Bourbon, as i would never think of ordering them.

[Darren]

T, sincerely hope you’re right about the tweaking. That’s a start. I think the recipes and menu need a lot more than tweaking though. It needs an overhaul.

And YES! You’re RIGHT about the meat with regard to the quality of the chicken. Totally.

Please don't focus on that one sentence that I wrote (and I HOPE this will clear this up! It was just a *suggestion* that MAY help the place… the texture was bad). YES, there ARE different qualities of chicken (such as Bell & Evans vs Perdue) The quality of the chicken wasn't good. (I buy my chicken and wings at Goffle Poultry, for many years, and I’m used to them). Maybe it was the cooking? Maybe they ran out of chicken on a Sunday and took a run to the A&P ?? WHO KNOWS?!

Most importantly though, the flavor and texture WASN’T anything special.

Regardless, the chicken wings aren't the “star” of their menu. But we tried other menu items.

Anyway, overall, and going from my own experience and what I’m hearing (lots). I would generously give Bourbon BBQ a 3/10.

As I’ve mentioned, I’ve seen restaurants come and go in this area. Unless sweeping changes are made, this restaurant will *never* last here. There's no way.

My “3” comes from the "uniqueness" of the place. However the quality of what we’ve tried along with the other comments that I’ve read on your blog, AND the talk of the locals, tells the whole story to me.

Hopefully, they WILL work out the kinks in time, but honestly, I would never recommend this restaurant.

Maybe certain people will like it?? I don't know... but they aren't around here!

[tommy:eats]

frankly i hope the majority locals hate it. all of those people who apparently want paper plates and rushed to the place the first day it opened and complained about it at the baseball games and to their neighbors and those who think Wonder bread is too low-brow for their town. those aren't the people who are going to appreciate it even *after* the kinks are worked out. the locals seem to have enough money and time to support the various mediocre restaurants in the area. 10's and 10's of them. i'd list them, but i don't have the time (the mediocre restaurants, not the locals). hell, if the locals all like it, they're doing something terribly wrong.

being different is never a popular idea. those locals, well, they're proving that point once again.

as far as making a guess as to whether the place survives, well that's not something i'm interested in. i'd rather focus on the positive. and frankly, if i may be Frank once again, in general, i don't care about the talk of the town and what most people have to say. 'cept for you nice folks, of course.

Darren, on another note, if you're into good meat, I hope you buy your ground beef from the Swiss Pork Store in Fair Lawn. It's outrageously good.

[pete_ganz]

Well, I only mentioned the quality of the meat because someone talked about the bad quality of the chicken. Again, I've only had the ribs, but they were not scrawny supermarket ribs...they were huge meaty racks that are very hard to find outside a butcher or specialty shop. (I picked up a large tray of them for a bbq party, if that alters things any).

[Daniel]

I haven't eaten at Bourbon, and won't for a few weeks at least. Let them practice on someone else. But anyone who complains about white bread with BBQ is clearly out of touch with most of the country. I used to eat at a BBQ place in Oakland CA called Flint's. In addition to having the best sauce on the planet, they cooked great beef brisket. And they served two slices of Wonder Bread with each plate. If I am going to sop up some sauce I don't want Balthazar baguettes on the side. White bread is good enough for Flint's, so it's good enough for me! I've also been served white bread in Chicago, Texas and North Carolina BBQ joints.

As for the quality of the meat, Tommy is correct about the origins of BBQ. It began as a way to make edible those tough, fatty, connective-tissue filled chunks of pork or beef that no one would, or could eat. I doubt that chicken was even part of the evolution of BBQ. My guess is that it is a recent addition.

I am going to agree with Tommy once again (no, I am not his sock puppet) about "locals." Most of our neighbors don't know much about good restaurant cooking, and for that matter good restaurant service. Just go into 90% of the restaurants around here and watch the indifferent table service and crappy bartending. And those places are packed! Sure, there are exceptions, but not many.

[tommy:eats]

I think I'm in love.

[HodipNorthHaledon]

I saw this joint written up in today's NY Times NJ section. As a local, I've been watching the place as it changed over from Clixes. As I've lived out west a lot of years and am also quite fond of Virginia BBQ I was interested in what Bourbon's would offer. After reading the above posts I was anticipating both service and food problems. The BBQ was great. We had the chopped pork sandwich and there's nothing wrong with it or the sauce. Good 'Q in my book. The service was sadly pathetic. My order was taken and punched in, but then was lost. The person who seemed to be expediting orders got involved with BSing with the folks who were AFTER me in line and so she left the prep line to a VERY slow guy. When I started noticing that two or three orders had been filled since mine, I mentioned it to the chatter lady, who seemed a bit perturbed that I even spoke up. To her credit, she filled my order promptly - but it had been lost so had to be started over again. Moral of the story --- despite the food being good, if the staff does not know the menu, keep the line moving promptly, pay attention to their job, the reputation of the restaurant will go right in the trash (along with the nasty macaroni & cheese - &*%&ing EZ Mac is better than that stuff!)

[Daniel]

I ate at Bourbon BBQ last night. While I can't comment on their efficiency when it's crowded (it was practically empty at 7:30pm), the service was excellent. The folks behind the counter were attentive, polite, and seemed genuinely interested in making sure that we were happy. After we got our food and were sitting at a table eating, the gentleman who took our order came by just to make sure that everything was OK.

And another thing; I was expecting plain white bread, which would have been fine. What we got was very high quality bread, certainly much better than Wonder Bread. It went perfectly with the barbecue and I really liked it.

Whatever their problems may be, it is clear that they are trying to address them. Was I thrilled with the food? No. But this is a serious barbecue joint. Maybe not the best, but better than most in this area.

[rozndon]

I phoned Bourbon BBQ for take-out last night. It was very convenient because I was able to order from their on line menu, and by the time I made the 5 minute trip to the restaurant, my order was just getting wrapped up. I guess it was because it was pretty early for a Friday night - 6:15 - and not very busy - just one or two diners.
While everybody's barbeque taste is different, I really didn't enjoy it. I ordered the 1/2 rack with tips, fries and cole slaw. When I opened the package containing the ribs, I was amazed at the amount of food!! With the tips, it was really enough for 2.
I found the dry rub a little peppery for my taste - I guess I like a sweeter rib seasoning. The sauce was good, and was nicely vinegary and didn't taste at all like any bottled sauce as I've read mentioned here (I usually use KC Masterpiece at home). My big complaint was that the tips were virtually uneatable being so dry I really couldn't chew the meat and I have good, strong teeth. I should say here that nothing was reheated - I ate this very shortly after it was prepared so it didn't dry out in reheating. This wasn't the case with the ribs because they were more fatty, I guess. The fries were the seasoned kind and quite good; the cole slaw was ordinary.
I ate the ribs, discarded the rest of the unchewable meat, and probably won't go there again. I also thought it was kind of expensive.

[teafreak]

I had actually tried Bourbon BBQ tonight for dinner, after reading all of these posts I decided it was time for me to try it out for myself. I was expecting dry, fatty ribs. and was extremely surprized to find the awesome ribs. cooked to perfecting, with the perfect smoke ring. I ate them extremely effortlessly. They were jazzed up even more as i poured on Chef Garys BBQ sauce, great stuff I should say. I had their cole slaw today, you could tell it was homemade and great. The service was timely and very nice, they came around to the tables to check how everything was doing. I had a great meal in there...

anyone who is on the fence about this place should really go out and try it! Seriously its a winner!

[tommy:eats]

This post has been the catalyst for many comments from people promoting their own BBQ restaurant, or, promoting Bourbon BBQ with some sort of vested interest either way.

Rest assured, I'm clever enough to weed out the shit from the real stuff, and I won't publish comments that are designed to trash Bourbon BBQ, to praise a competitor, or to praise Bourbon.

So stop wasting your time.

[Daniel]

Who are their competitors? I don't mean restaurants that have barbecue on the menu, but joints with counters and coke machines and dirt parking lots. Any idea where to go?

[tommy:eats]

Daniel,

Off the top of my head (not necessarily dirt parking lots, but restaurants that do 'cue):

Bailey's in Blauvelt, NY
CC's BBQ in Haledon
Broad Street Smokehouse in Ridgewood
Front Street Smokehouse in Elizabeth
Hog Hollow in Philipsburgh

I'd really like to get to Hog Hollow. It seems like my kind of place.

[EmandDan117]

First of all...this place is expensive? You've got to be kidding me! Do you live in North New Jersey? I'm just wondering who could possibly think that $15 for a dinner entree is expensive. Maybe someone who eats McDonald's every night? And for $15, you get an entree that could feed 3 people! The food here is excellent and the BBQ is authentic. I have only done take out so can't speak to the service but hopefully at this point, the kinks have been ironed out.

If you're considering trying Bourbon BBQ, ignore the previous negative posts that are unfounded and ridiculous. There is no other restaurant in the area that has a bbq menu that can compare.